LUXOR: With his fluent Arabic, easy demeanour and extensive knowledge of the region, Bernd Erbel seems well-suited to the post of German Ambassador to Egypt.Now in his sixtieth year, Erbel began his diplomatic career with a posting to Beirut from 1987 to 1981, at which time Lebanon was in the depths of a bloody civil war. Since then, his job has taken him to Yemen, Saudi Arabia, Baghdad and Egypt. His first Ambassadorship was in Baghdad from 2004 to 2006, and his stint as German Ambassador in Cairo began in the spring of 2006.Among his many responsibilities, Erbel plays a central role in the application of development assistance to Egypt. On a trip last week to Luxor and Qena with Egypt’s Minister of International Development, Dr Fayza Abou Naga, he toured a number of projects largely funded by Germany. Among the sites was a new village school, part of a project aimed at building 700 new classrooms for 28,000 pupils in 62 schools in the country’s four poorest governorates in Upper Egypt. He also visited an innovative water and wastewater services facility and the impressive Naga Hammadi barrage, which aims to regulate water levels on the Nile, irrigate large areas of land and provide electricity for the national grid. Ambassador Erbel took time out on his tour to talk to Daily News Egypt about Germany’s development assistance program.
Daily News Egypt: How do you think that German aid has changed over the years until the present time?Ambassador Erbel: I think German aid has become more realistic. In the sixties and seventies, we were too idealistic. We thought one could change complete systems, or that our models would be adaptable to Third World countries. Most of our projects were failures, and altogether development aid has not really changed the fate of Africa or other continents in a positive way. So nowadays, we are only doing projects where we know that both sides want the same thing, both sides have decided to implement the project, and that it will have long-term sustainable consequences.
Does that mean that the ideas are originating from Egypt and the other recipient countries themselves?Yes they are. Of course, we can discuss things and propose something, but we will never start a project on which we do not fully agree, because if one side is not really convinced of a project, it will not really work out. I have personally followed many projects that were implemented with very good intentions but completely failed because the other side did not logically follow what the aim was.
It seems the projects you engage in rely on the principle of de-centralization of control of particular functions. Is this a big issue now?Yes, it is. And the Egyptian government wants to reach this point. We find it very positive, because only when people participate in structures do they also treat resources with the necessary respect. For example, saving water, saving electricity, saving any other resource, means that people have the feeling that they are part of the game. If everything is anonymous, if it’s only the big apparatus of the state on one side and the citizen on the other side, who has no say in anything, then people will not act reasonably and will not save resources.
A lot of projects increasingly rely on the privatization of utilities, and in some developing countries people are finding that water provision from private companies is not equitable, with companies refusing to supply water to poor areas. How can you ensure that kind of thing doesn’t happen in Egypt?I wonder whether the word “privatization is exactly the right one, but it is important to have structures, non-profit structures in which people participate. And here in Luxor and Qena, for example, and many other parts of the country, the water holding companies now are a success. And I think they are a good example for other provinces to follow.Does that mean that individual companies need to be supervised by an umbrella organization under the ultimate control of the national government?Yes. There is an umbrella organization, which is a branch of the Ministry of Utilities and Water, and the companies themselves are financially independent. And they should not need state subsidies; they should have positive financial results or be equal at least.
Very often we hear of people relocated to make way for projects, and this has often been unsuccessful in the past in Egypt, perhaps because the housing they’ve been provided with has been sub-standard. How can you tackle that problem?One has to start very early, to imply people in the process. Concerning the Naga Hammadi barrage, for example, there are a few people who had to change their location, not many, but I think we have found very satisfying solutions for that. And the main thing is really to include people from the very first moment, to give them the chance to participate, to know that if they give a positive impact this will have a consequence for them, that it’s not only the feeling: “I have to resist as long as possible in order to get compensation in the end, or whatever. No, it should not be a defensive and negative approach; it should be a positive one to say, “If I participate from the very beginning, we’ll all find a solution which is better for everybody.
The United States recently said that it would withhold aid to Egypt unless Egypt meets certain conditions, primarily relating to border security. What is Germany’s approach to linking development assistance to conditions, political or otherwise?Germany does not link development aid to political conditions, but of course it agrees with the recipient country on aims and benchmarks. This leads to the commitment that both Germany and our partner country are bound to reach the same aims. For example, on a renewable energy project, we would set goals and objectives related to the project and how it would be implemented, and then work to reach those targets.
What is the German role in the ongoing situation in Palestine?We try to help especially in the field of social and economic questions, because the political frame cannot be very much influenced by Germany. Of course, we are part of the EU, and the EU is part of the Quartet, but we decided to start an initiative in order to ease the economic and social conditions of the Palestinians, in order to contribute like this, as our part, to a solution of the problem.
Is Germany’s motivation in providing development assistance entirely altruistic, or is there an element of strategic self-interest involved?Egypt is a neighbor country on the southern shore of the Mediterranean. It has a population of 75 million inhabitants, and is the most populous country on the southern and eastern shores of the Mediterranean. We are interested in the stability and welfare of Egypt. In principle, there is no conflict of interest; in practically all cases, what is good for Egypt is good for Germany. You could call that altruistic, but in any case, Germany has an interest in the stability and welfare of Egypt.
